Sex Leads to Badness, and other tropes

[snick_backup]

In comments to penny_lane_42's recent post, Sexuality, Consent, and the Buffyverse, I wrote, "I don't really have anything to say about the Sex Leads to Badness trope."

On further thought, I find that this is not true.

Joss's repeated use of Sex Leads to Badness (see Lauren's post for a handy enumerated list of evidence) is frequently viewed as Joss punishing the characters for having sex. I gather that this is a common horror trope as well, one that Joss has clearly overlooked in his attempt to deconstruct the genre. I've read a number of reasons for why people dislike this trope; leading the list are the related ideas that Sex=Good and that by using the trope Joss is promoting a twisted, unhealthy view of sexuality.

By themselves, I've never found either objection very compelling, largely, I suspect, because I have a more conservative view of healthy and appropriate sexual behavior than many folks. I view sex as an intimacy best experienced inside a deeply committed relationship. As with other intimate acts, it involves a great deal of vulnerability, at the very least physical but in most cases emotional as well. It also comes with baggage and expectations, many of them cultural but some, I believe, hard-wired. Sex is powerful stuff and not to be taken lightly. There are in fact very few examples of sex in the Buffyverse that I can believe were actually good decisions on the parts of both parties involved. (This is one major reason why I tend to write gen.)

(Also, because I know this often becomes an issue: I feel exactly the same way about this for both men and women. To my mind, casual sex is equally unhealthy and inappropriate for either gender.)

Given that, I’m actually all for the idea that sex has consequences, both good and bad, and am not opposed to seeing these consequences played out on screen. When Buffy makes what I consider the monumentally stupid decision to sleep with Parker, whom she’d known for a couple of weeks, I’m not in the least surprised that she gets burned. When Spike and Anya get it on, is it any wonder they hurt a whole lot of people’s feelings in the process, whether those hurt feelings are justified or not? And Lauren and I were talking just the other day about how one of the reasons the Spike/Buffy relationship in S6 works for us is because it goes against the “start having sex and everything’s fixed!” trope that’s so popular, especially in fandom.

OTOH, I find I have increasingly little patience with badness that directly follows sex and yet isn’t causally related to it, or at least wouldn’t be in our universe. “Sleep with your boyfriend and he’ll lose his soul” is of course the prototypical example, and it works because it’s Joss’s first big venture into such waters, because its metaphor is intentional, and because the arc is written so very well. But then there are such gems as “Sleep with your girlfriend again and some guy’ll shoot you” and our latest winner, “Sleep with your ex-boyfriend and current mortal enemy, and you’ll destroy the world! Literally!” That’s badness by authorial fiat, and after a while it starts to feel like plain bad storytelling.

However, if you toss in all the instances that are less about sex than about relationships in general, whether begun, renewed, or ongoing, things get much worse: Jenny dying just as she and Giles are reconciling, the meltdown of the Willow/Oz breakup, the heartbreak and stupidity of the Xander-Anya wedding-that-wasn’t, Anya dying shortly after she and Xander get together again, Renee dying after she and Xander kiss. And then there’s that one thing in Dr. Horrible, and that other kiss-followed-by-gunshot-death in Dollhouse (which I am still quite bitter about). In fact, I care much less about Joss’s apparent vendetta against sex than I do about his vendetta against relationships in general. Joss forbid that any couple ever get a happy ending, or even just a stable, long-term relationship. I adore Wash and Zoe in Firefly - a happily married couple! in space! – and we all know how that turned out.

All of which is to say: I’m a fan of Sex Leads to Consequences. I’m skeptical of Sex Leads to Badness; it depends very much on how it’s handled and what we’re talking about. And I’m profoundly irritated with All Relationships are Doomed.

Comments

[next_to_normal]

Big, big WORD.

I've always been kind of conflicted about the "Sex leads to Badness" trope, because on the one hand, it fits with my experience, so I don't have room to argue it's not realistic. But on the other hand, as cynical as I am about sex and relationships, I'd like to think that my experience is not representative of relationships as a whole, otherwise we'd have died out as a species because no one would get together, ever. And yet, in the Jossverse, it IS typical.

So I like your distinction between actual consequences of sex and unrelated badness that happens after sex. The former is certainly appropriate, and I appreciate that Joss addresses it because, like I said, it is realistic. But it'd be nice if it were balanced with the notion that not ALL sex results in dire consequences.

Then there's the unrelated badness issue, which falls squarely into the horror movie trope of girls who get killed right after they have sex. I get that it makes for good drama, but it also leads to the fridging and/or punishment of women, and I could do without that, ever. As I said on penny_lane_42's post, I think when it comes to relationship drama, Joss is a one-trick pony, and that's rather disappointing.

[snickfic]

But it'd be nice if it were balanced with the notion that not ALL sex results in dire consequences.

Fair enough. And there are a few sexual relationships that do appear to be fairly healthy, such as Buffy/Riley and particularly Willow/Oz. Even there, though, when the relationship finally ends it's Big and Dramatic and Painful. Ugh.

I get that it makes for good drama,

I am skeptical. Maybe it makes good drama once or even twice, but Joss has long since worn out its welcome for me, and now I doubt I'll have any patience with it from anyone else, either. It is drama, yes, but whether or not it is good remains to be seen...

[next_to_normal]

And there are a few sexual relationships that do appear to be fairly healthy, such as Buffy/Riley and particularly Willow/Oz. Even there, though, when the relationship finally ends it's Big and Dramatic and Painful. Ugh.

Yeah. I mean, yay for the occasional positive sexual experience, but having them go through an ugly break-up just undermines the positive message.

As for whether or not it's good drama, it definitely depends on how it's used. It certainly CAN be - Buffy/Angel in S2 was great drama, and I wasn't even invested in the relationship. I think it's easy drama, mostly - it's a lot easier to create relationship angst by putting the relationship in jeopardy than by creating problems within a relationship. Because if you have problems within a relationship, you have to have the characters actually work through them, instead of just shuffling off one of the characters, never to be seen again (except for occasional guest appearances).

I think what it boils down to is that Joss is great at deconstruction. He can tear down a character or break up a relationship. He just isn't good at building them up, and that's what's needed to portray a compelling, stable relationship.

[snickfic]

I think it's easy drama, mostly - it's a lot easier to create relationship angst by putting the relationship in jeopardy than by creating problems within a relationship.

I think what it boils down to is that Joss is great at deconstruction. He can tear down a character or break up a relationship. He just isn't good at building them up, and that's what's needed to portray a compelling, stable relationship.

I think these two statements are the plain and simple truth for why Joss has been disappointing us. It is harder to build relationships than destroy them, and it is more work to create and resolve problems in a relationship rather than just ending it. Yup yup.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

OH YES.

I have nothing to say about this post other than that I agree entirely and completely. I'd been thinking about trying to write up my thoughts on why I hate the Sex Is Bad thing even though I have that same view of sex you do. But you do it so much more clearly and insightfully than I could have hoped to. Thanks, hon, for your brilliance!

[snickfic]

Brilliant? Really? I felt as though I was just muddling around and teasing at definitions and equivocating a lot. I don't actually feel that strongly about the Sex is Bad trope; at most, in certain circumstances, I'm bored and/or irritated. And boredom/irritation is much less thrilling to read about than rage.

Anyway, I'm glad it made sense. :)

However, I'm still a little hazy on why you hate the Sex is Bad thing. Fill me in?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

It was brilliant because it perfectly summed up how I felt. :D

I'm usually bored and/or irritated by it, but combined with the questionable consent issues that muddy the waters, the fact that he seems incapable of doing anything else, and (especially) the idea he seems to perpetuate that platonic relationships are good and romantic relationships are bad, sometimes I do get ragey about his depictions of romantic relationships.

But really, your thoughts are my thoughts. Like you, I'm fine with something like Parker turning out the way it does: that felt entirely realistic to me. It's the dozens of times it's accompanied by consequences that shouldn't follow that really bug me. That, and I don't think sex in and of itself is bad. Like you, I think it just needs to be located in its proper context. So Sex = Bad is wrong. Sex Has Consequences, like I said, is something I can embrace. But in Joss's world, it's the former, not the later, that seems to hold true.

There's also the fact that the the Badness disproportionately affects women, both within the Buffyverse and in the larger cultural context, and I hate that.

Plus, I just think it's lazy storytelling, and that makes me mad, because I really do know that Joss is capable of more.

[snickfic]

Oh, yes, if we're talking about the Jossian view of relationships then I'm apt to be quite ragey. Remember how I felt about that one bit of Dollhouse... *g*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Yeah....

Oh, Joss.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I'm usually bored and/or irritated by it, but combined with the questionable consent issues that muddy the waters, the fact that he seems incapable of doing anything else, and (especially) the idea he seems to perpetuate that platonic relationships are good and romantic relationships are bad, sometimes I do get ragey about his depictions of romantic relationships.

This, combined with your Zoe and Wash icon, is total win. And I do think Joss has a hard-on for platonic relationships that really undermines the benefits and inherent goodness of long-term, committed romantic relationships.

If you delve into the realm of biographical criticism, you really see correlations with Joss' life: he's a child of divorce, and I think that's influenced his view of marriage. I read somewhere that Joss' home life, as well as SMG's being raised by a single mother, really influenced how Buffy's father was portrayed, and it all adds up to a lack of faith in committed romantic relationships. I come from a home where my parents have been married for twenty-seven years, and I've seen that their relationship is far stronger than any platonic friendships they have outside of marriage. I think one of the biggest discords with my personal experience I find in the Jossverse is Xander and Anya's relationship - he wasn't willing to commit to the level she deserved, and it wasn't because he was afraid of becoming like his father; it was because his commitment to Buffy and Willow superseded his relationship with Anya, and so Anya was left out in the cold.

I recall a Shakespeare course I took in which we studied the plays from the family dynamic aspect of criticism, and we looked at Much Ado About Nothing as a play about giving up the "Bros Before Hos" tope as the final sign of becoming an adult. When Benedict was willing to kill Claudio for Beatrice, he was taking the step of committing to her above his male friendships. This is something we've never seen in Buffy; any separation of the Core Four Scooby gang is seen as a conflict that needs to be resolved by the end of the episode.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oooh! Look at you being all thinky and making me grin!

I come from a home where my parents have been married for twenty-seven years, and I've seen that their relationship is far stronger than any platonic friendships they have outside of marriage. Yup. Mine, too--except that it's 26. ;D No doubt this is the reason I have such an investment in marriages in fandoms I relate to. Also, my mama is extremely close with her family, so that's probably the reason that I looooove familial relationships, too.

I think one of the biggest discords with my personal experience I find in the Jossverse is Xander and Anya's relationship - he wasn't willing to commit to the level she deserved, and it wasn't because he was afraid of becoming like his father; it was because his commitment to Buffy and Willow superseded his relationship with Anya, and so Anya was left out in the cold.

Yup. One of the reasons I could never fully embrace Xander. I'm so Team Anya that I always sat there feeling sorry for her.

Yes, yes! green_maia has a series of really brilliant posts about Doctor Who and the trope of The Temptation of Women and Family, in which she explores the idea that in many narratives, the hero is "tempted" by the love of a woman or the idea of a family, and that temptation is BADBADBAD and he should always ride off into the sunset on his own, being all heroic (and violent, which she also critiques as a pacifist. I'm not quite pacifist, but I fangirl her for being so dedicated to nonviolence).

In Joss's work, the temptation is still there, but the hero shouldn't ride off into the sunset--she should run back to Xander and Willow and Giles, because anything romantic is always going to fail her.

This is something we've never seen in Buffy; any separation of the Core Four Scooby gang is seen as a conflict that needs to be resolved by the end of the episode. Yes. And this really strikes home for me: when I wrote post-NFA Buffy/Spike, I have them only sometimes interacting with people who aren't Dawn or Angel (interestingly enough). And when I picture them together in the future, Buffy's still close with the Scoobies...but not that close. But she she is always going to be close to Dawn in my stuff, and nothing can change that.

Just shows how different my approach is from Joss's.

[snickfic]

I just wanted to drop in and say that this is a really interesting, meaty comment. Thank you for giving me more things to think about. :)

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

Well, thank you, but it was an excellent essay to begin with.

I have a very conservative view of sexuality, too, and I think Joss portrays sexuality in both good and bad ways. The Angel/Angelus sex leads to badness trope was one we really didn't need to revisit, and I think it's really stunted the comics. If I didn't come into active fandom right as Twilightgate hit, I may have been encouraged by Emmie's love for them to give them a chance, because even with some nice crackfic aspects, they really weren't that bad. I may not have appreciated Buffy's foray into bisexuality (don't worry, she still likes dick!), but the character of Satsu is the best OC out of any of the comics at either company, so it was somewhat redeemable. Dawn's adventures in shapeshifting would have been really squicky with the lack of bodily autonomy and rape metaphors, but it served to really show what an awesome and strong character Dawn really is - something I've always known, but it's nice to see the haters shutting up as Dawn finds her place in the world. At this point, I think Dawn is acting far more mature than Buffy, and Buffy is my hero, but this whole Twilight arc has really turned me off: the consent issues, the bad writing, the OOCness, the mythology fail, the pacing issues, the Pr0n, the bobblehead artwork . . . no other way to say this, but Meltzer kinda ruined it for me.

Sex is something that always has consequences, be they good or bad. Some of the bad consequences Joss shows are appropriate; the Parker thing is a good example of that. The problem is, we have far fewer examples of the good consequences.

Somewhere gabrielleabelle said something about how she wishes they didn't fade to black on the basement scene in Chosen, and I have to agree. They could have shown both Buffy and Spike gaining strength from their emotional and physical connection, it would have made Spike's sacrifice more bittersweet, and it would have given Buffy a good sexual experience to end the show on - because she never gained back her sexuality after season 6. The Bangel kiss was just 'hello,' it did nothing to show Buffy that healthy sexual relationships are possible. I gotta admit I'm saying this entire paragraph as a Spuffy shipper who loves the emotional connectedness of the relationship in season 7, but having Buffy and Spike have sex in Chosen would have really pushed the forgiveness angle that was strong throughout the entire season (I also think we should have had some Spike and Willow scenes where they gain validation from each other for trying to rise above their past sins and learning to forgive themselves, but that's just me). I know Joss was afraid his feminist cronies would have bitten his head off for pulling a Luke and Laura, but it would have served the characters and ended the show with sexuality depicted in a good way.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Word to your last paragraph. I did, indeed, say that for that very reason. :)

[snickfic]

If I didn't come into active fandom right as Twilightgate hit

I didn't realize you were quite that new an addition to my corner of the Internet. Welcome!

Dawn's adventures in shapeshifting would have been really squicky with the lack of bodily autonomy and rape metaphors, but it served to really show what an awesome and strong character Dawn really is

Really? I didn't really see how it gave Dawn that opportunity - I was still stuck on the lack of bodily autonomy and the sheer crack of the whole situation. There are so many ways to describe S8, but I usually shorthand it to outsiders as, "They turned Dawn into a centaur," and that seems to be sufficient. (Not that I think Dawn-as-centaur is an irredeemable premise, just that it came nowhere near being redeemed.)

They could have shown both Buffy and Spike gaining strength from their emotional and physical connection, it would have made Spike's sacrifice more bittersweet, and it would have given Buffy a good sexual experience to end the show on

I guess I could see that - which says something for your powers of persuasion, because I've always been highly skeptical of a sexual encounter at that point. I just didn't think they were in the right mental space for it. However, I rewatched again last night with this in mind, and... maybe.

(Then again, I have a lot of other issues with Buffy's behavior towards Spike in those last few eps; I'm not sure sex with her is really in Spike's best interests, emotionally.)

Again: very interesting stuff!

[next_to_normal]

Really? I didn't really see how it gave Dawn that opportunity - I was still stuck on the lack of bodily autonomy and the sheer crack of the whole situation.

Well, it is pretty cracky, but she gets the opportunity to save the day by being a giant, and it would certainly take some kind of inner strength to put up with being a giant/centaur/doll for a year and not completely lose your shit. But honestly, I'd MUCH rather have seen Dawn being awesome and strong while normal-sized. I don't think that's too much to ask.

ETA: I've always been highly skeptical of a sexual encounter at that point. I just didn't think they were in the right mental space for it.

I'm with you on this. If Joss had intended to end things differently, then I'd be okay with them going for the sex. But it seems obvious to me that they weren't ready for that - hell, they can't even talk about what it means just holding each other - and so if everything else stayed the same, I think sex would be inappropriate at that point in their relationship.

[snickfic]

But honestly, I'd MUCH rather have seen Dawn being awesome and strong while normal-sized. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Exactly. Except, everything seems to be too much to ask from these comics guys. Sigh.

As to the fade-to-black: yep yep.

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

*nods* I think what bothers me most about Joss's view of the romantic world is the "All Relationships are Doomed". As I mentioned somewhere before, if I were his wife, I'd be very concerned!

Many (many, many) years ago on Miami Vice, I got the the point where I hated to see Sonny (Don Johnson's character) involved emotionally with anybody because you just knew she was going to die one way or another. :) That actually happened to Tubbs, too, now that I think about it. I guess it's an easy way to make sure your main characters can be hooked up again if/when you want them to, but... Plus, when it becomes predictable, you've lost much of the emotional effect.

[snickfic]

I got the the point where I hated to see Sonny (Don Johnson's character) involved emotionally with anybody because you just knew she was going to die one way or another.

I can see how that'd get old really fast. And, as Lauren mentions above, from a meta perspective it treats the female characters as expendable. I suppose this is always a risk when writing a show with male protagonists, but it sounds like this was a show that, uh, embraced the risk.

Plus, when it becomes predictable, you've lost much of the emotional effect.

Yes. At this point, all Joss does when he pulls this junk is make me mad.

[silverusagi]

I’m a fan of Sex Leads to Consequences. I’m skeptical of Sex Leads to Badness.

This. Consequences are fine, but the idea that all sex is bad (and apparently universe destroying in some cases?) just boggles my mind. Why can't we show it in a positive and negative light?

[snickfic]

Hey, she and Spike already knocked down a house. Universe-destroying sex was the next stop, right?

Intruder Alert

[(Anonymous)]

I expect most shows to use relationships as a drama-generator. My impression of Buffy was that it was a cutsey/teenagey show, so it surprises me to hear that the main character has so many boys instead of a one-true-love. (What happened to Angel?) This does not make me want to watch the show, though. I prefer a balance between luv and ho-dom.

P.S.--Do they ever reveal why the vampires get wrinkly-faced? All the victims always say, "Vampire!" when they do this, and I'm like--what?

--Ariel

Re: Intruder Alert

[snickfic]

Careful. If you keep asking questions, I might tell you a whole lot more than you ever cared to know. *g*

Short version: over seven years, Buffy had three major, season-spanning relationships, of which Angel was the first. He eventually went off to LA to star in five seasons of his own show, so... if it's twoo wuv, it's twoo wuv from a distance (as some fans and also the writers of this comic series apparently want us to think).

There's never any explanation of the vampire bumpies. I still figure the writers/producers/whoever wanted an easy visual cue for the audience to identify vampires by. No false positives with face-bumpies.

I haven't talked to you in so long! We need an actual conversation sometime soon. I just finished my annual Stephen King novel...

Re: Intruder Alert

[next_to_normal]

I still figure the writers/producers/whoever wanted an easy visual cue for the audience to identify vampires by. No false positives with face-bumpies.

I think it's also for the killing aspect. It would be ickier if Buffy were staking people who looked human. If they're in vamp face, then they're more obviously a monster, so it's okay for her to be killing them. That's also the reason they dust when they're staked, rather than leaving dead bodies, I believe.

Re: Intruder Alert

[snickfic]

Good point. That actually seems a bit of a cop-out on their part, but OTOH, I suppose one wouldn't really want to promote the killing of apparent humans on a weekly basis, either...

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Heh. I'm a lot more sexually liberal than you seem to be, but I don't really disagree with you. Sex can have some natural consequences. I didn't mind the Parker/Buffy thing because...well...that happens. I see it more as a "Parker being a douchebag" thing than Buffy being stupid (Parker was feeding her lines about an actual relationship. He lied to get sex. Bad on him.). But there be sleazes in the real world, so I'm fine with it being shown in the series.

Being the sex-positive sort I am, I would love to see Buffy have more positive sexual experiences just because I cringe when I realize how horrible Buffy's sex life usually turns out. I'd like to see Buffy at the end of Chosen as being empowered in her sexuality, but the last word we get on that is when Spike tried to rape her in S6 (Well, putting aside the TOTALLY DID NOT HAPPEN RJ incident in Him). I just kinda hate that my girl's final sexual experience in her show was the destructive Buffy/Spike S6 sex. *grumble*

[snickfic]

Oh yes, Parker was also being a douchebag. No argument there. (Which reminds me, I've been meaning to watch beer_good_foamy's Buffy/Parker vid...)

I just kinda hate that my girl's final sexual experience in her show was the destructive Buffy/Spike S6 sex.

As you say, I think we place different values on the importance of sex, but I see your point. Sex was one of many areas where Buffy got beaten down in those last couple seasons of the show, and it hurts not to see her recover.