in which I blather about Mary Sues and ids and stuff

[snick_backup]

It seems to me that Mary Sues - tragic, unique, capable, practically perfect in every way - clearly feed some deep human desire; otherwise, they would not spring up independently in so many writers' works, particularly in the works of adolescents with little exposure to any kind of literary thought. I wrote myself into Happy Days (I had red hair and was devastatingly clever) long before I'd ever heard of fandom, and in my non-fannish storyworld I several suspiciously Sue-ish main characters. I didn't tell those stories because I saw someone else do it; I told them because I wanted to. And is this, in and of itself, really so laughable a motive?

This isn't to say that Sue-fic isn't usually bad. It usually is. But often (nearly always?) that has as much as to do with the writer's skill set as it does the fabulous fabulousness of the Mary Sue. Because, come on, I pretty much adore any fabulously fabulous female character a writer can convince me of (*girlcrushes on Susan Sto-Helit*). It's only when they fail to convince me that I roll my eyes.

It's one of the reasons we laugh at badfic, isn't it - because the author hasn't the skills (or sometimes the desire) to disguise their id? And author revelation in stories is embarrassing, indecent. Either we mock or we avert our eyes.

I... don't really have a point here, except that I feel a comradely empathy for writers writing their Mary Sue fics, even though I don't generally care to read them. Also that blasting Sue-fics for being Sue-fics seems a bit disingenuous. It's kind of like blasting mpreg for being mpreg (and we all know how I feel about that). Blasting those things for being badly written is a different critique.

Comments

[bobthemole.livejournal.com]

My old history prof just published a novel that's strongly influenced by his and his wife's lives and interests. When I heard the synopsis, I quelled the urge to yell GARY STU!!!!!! at his face and asked, most respectfully, how he overcame the discomfort of writing a protagonist who was so obviously an author stand-in.

He grinned and said, "Chutzpah!"

I've decided to use that as valid justification if I ever want to write a Mary Sue or self-insert.

[snickfic]

Hah! That's excellent. I think there's actually a marked difference between writing a Mary Sue or self insert knowingly vs. unknowingly.

Of course, there is the problem that if you write a fictionalized version of yourself and do it badly, it's probably more embarrassing if you wrote a different character badly. More personal, you know?

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Heh. When you said your Sue was "devastatingly clever", my mind immediately went to Elizabeth Bennett, and where would we all be without her, I ask you? Then you mention Susan, and, well, point made, I think.

There are so many wonderful female protagonists these days. My dear MiAmor says that he's nearly got to the point where he can't stand to watch female characters that are just average, because he wants Veronica Mars...all. the. time. Or someone just as awesome as her, anyway. It's a tall order, but why not? I'm not reading or watching (or writing) genre because I dislike the fabulous, clearly. Make 'em larger than life! Show us the better way! (Just make sure they suffer a little, too.)

[snickfic]

Make 'em larger than life! Show us the better way! (Just make sure they suffer a little, too.)

I think that last bit is important to the whole enterprise: I don't want a female character who's perfect. I want female characters who are people (and also frequently fabulous). There was a great post a few months back from someone who was complaining that "strong female character" doesn't just mean "practically perfect in every way"; it means a character who has agency but is also a complex, flawed individual. It was a great post; I wonder if I could find it again.

All of which isn't, of course, to say there isn't plenty of narrative room for characters (both male and female) who aren't ridiculously competent/independent/whathaveyou.

[(Anonymous)]

The meaning of the word "blast" has so degraded these last few centuries.

--Ariel

[snickfic]

Are you feeling nostalgic for the days when it meant mortar shells and shrapnel?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with this post. And I've always been annoyed by people who bash thirteen-year-olds who are writing bad Sue fic--I mean, weren't most of us thirteen-year-olds writing bad Sue fic at first? Leave them alone, they'll get better as they learn.

[snickfic]

And I've always been annoyed by people who bash thirteen-year-olds who are writing bad Sue fic--I mean, weren't most of us thirteen-year-olds writing bad Sue fic at first?

*nods*

With a lot of fic I find myself wavering between "this author is an idiot!" and "this author is inexperienced." Between judgment and grace, you know? I actually forgive bad grammar and typos and and laughably purple prose (I glanced at something the other day wherein the moon was described as an orb in the first line) much more easily than what I consider idiotic/unrealistic attitudes about sex, relationships, etc. If your punctuation is good and your prose is decent, then I expect maturity in other areas of your writing as well.

Okay, done navel-gazing now. *rolls eyes*

[next_to_normal]

Haha, true confession time: when I was a child, I didn't make up imaginary friends. I made up a character for myself who would be friends with the characters in a book or movie or TV show I liked. And that character was always awesome or brilliant in some way, usually because I had to be uniquely skilled at something to fit in with that world.

I never wrote any of it down, but I was basically making up Sue-fic - when I was younger, I play-acted it, or when that became childishly embarassing, just told stories to myself. (Um, there may have been a "Hitchcock's brilliant younger sister who dated Lucas" version of SeaQuest in my head...) And then I discovered fanfic and it was like, "Wow, other people do this, too! And they WRITE IT DOWN! And other people READ IT!"

And obviously, most of the things I came up with, I'd never share with an audience because it wasn't any good, but I definitely understand where the desire comes from. And I agree with you that if it's well done, I don't care how Sueish the character is - I love fabulous female characters, as long as they're well-written.

[snickfic]

Yeah, it's clearly something with a broad emotional appeal.

"Hitchcock's brilliant younger sister who dated Lucas"

Tee hee! Hey, speaking of, I did write that Lucas/River drabble. I'll post a link as soon as the fest goes live.

And I agree with you that if it's well done, I don't care how Sueish the character is - I love fabulous female characters, as long as they're well-written.

*nods* Seriously. It's not like I don't watch tons of things with less-than-fully-realistic characters. Why can't some of them be fabulous women?

[next_to_normal]

Yay! Lucas/River! I await with anticipation. :)