Also about bashing

[snick_backup]

A) It's often ship-driven. OOC behavior for the promotion of a ship just makes me mad, even if it's my ship.

B) Too often Spuffy fic writers use Xander/Angel/Giles as a scapegoat for Spuffy difficulties and then sweep all the other, legit stuff under the rug. Which I hate! It isn't like Spuffy doesn't have enough complications; Spuffy is all about the complications. The last thing I want is an easy resolution.

Comments

[diamondtook862.livejournal.com]

I agree with you muchly. :) Xander was never the reason Spike and Buffy couldn't be together. It's usually a smokescreen to make him a true obstacle. It certainly was for Buffy. Huh, this is part of why I'm writing Best Intentions, to show that it was in Buffy's head that her friends would reject her if they found out *during* rather than *after* (though it did evolve from there).

I dislike any character bashing though, as I commented on lusciousxander's post, I think the Buffyverse characters are too complex to warrant bashing. It's a disservice to the layers and nuances of their characterization to reduce them to one note and then blame them for it, and when a character is worth hating, there is usually a good reason for it (like Warren). Of course we care about some characters more than others (I'd love to understand your Faith-love), but if the characters were as shallow as we sometimes portray them, I would seriously wonder why we are watching this show in the first place.

[snickfic]

Huh, this is part of why I'm writing Best Intentions

I thought of you while writing this post! Because yes, that's exactly what you're doing - showing that Xander is not the one and only obstacle standing in front of their twoo wuv.

It's a disservice to the layers and nuances of their characterization to reduce them to one note and then blame them for it

Very much so.

I love Faith in a heartfelt but distant sort of way; I feel so much sympathy for her and yet I have a really hard time getting into her headspace. She is, for me, one of the more tragic characters in the Buffyverse. I hurt so hard for her while knowing that she'd probably dismiss me as a goody two shoes.

Plus, she's fun; I probably wouldn't love her so hard if she didn't have such a knack for livening up slow, dull parties (BtVS S4, Ats S1, BtVS S7, etc).

[diamondtook862.livejournal.com]

:D

I think the "she's fun" thing is one of my mental blocks with her. I get that she's hurting, and that's where I sympathize. I live her in the Angel episodes and later Buffy because of how she develops from there, because we see how much she goes through and how much she changes. On the other hand, I always felt like she was shaking up a good thing when she was around (yes, yes. I know that was the point of he) and I wished she would just go away. :P I didn't think she was fun, I thought she was disruptive and didn't get how things worked, but thought she owned the place anyway. I never hated her- but I never liked her in earlier seasons. Redemption softened my Faith-goggles, but not enough to make me want to spend time with her in the way, say, Anya's character arc changed my mind completely about her. I love Faith now, but somehow my Faith-love doesn't extend to early-season Fauth, or really wanting to read more about her. :)

[snickfic]

(yes, yes. I know that was the point of he)

I think there's a key letter or word or something missing here?

I thought she was disruptive and didn't get how things worked, but thought she owned the place anyway.

The fact that she doesn't get how things work is part of why I like her - she provides some of that outsider perspective at times when the show could use it (especially Buffy S7).

But I recognize that she's not everyone's favorite, and I'm okay with that. :)

[diamondtook862.livejournal.com]

Haha! I didn't tell you about that mpreg genderswap fic starring Faith I was writing? ;)

My description probably sounded like hate, which it totally wasn't. More like slight annoyance, morphing into ambivalence, then into not-too-deep love. :) The annoyance was a first-time gut reaction that her later arc helped a lot with, but I've only rewatched the early seasons once, so I haven't forgotten it yet. :) like I said, I'd love to see her through your eyes (which is why I said something). It makes sense, I like being comfortable, but getting out of the usual narrative perspective can be a really good thing.

[snickfic]

her - that's what it's supposed to be. I just couldn't figured out what the missing letter was supposed to be! But never mind, do tell about the Faith mpreg genderswap (which I'm sure angearia will be all agog to hear about, as she has a Thing about genderswaps...). *g*

[diamondtook862.livejournal.com]

Right. So you see, Faith tried to save Dawn from Kenny, giving him a real beatdown, and he went and turned her into a guy! Now, it just so happens that she and Giles had, ahem, got it on, the previous evening, (they had a secret relationship owing to all the bonding), so one thing led to another, and lo and behold, mpreg in season 8! And Giles is the father! And so is Faith!

Great story, yes? ;)

*don't kill me! I haven't actually read the comics*

[snickfic]

Giles/Faith mpreg! Of course! And of course it was that jerk Kenny, grrr.

(You realize that if you want to describe an mpreg too cracky for me to read, you're going to have to work a lot harder.)

It's okay, dear. I mostly haven't read the comics, either. I just read the wank and interpolate.

[harsens-rob.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way about my Spander when Anya and/or Buffy is usually psychotically OOC. I don't need super-nutso-cuckoos to act as a deterrent to my spander. I need in-character conflicts that make the spander difficult.

Bashing is the easy, sucky way out.

[snickfic]

I have a read a very leetle Spander, and yeah, psychotic!bitch!Buffy was there in force. Even if the ship appealed to me, that right there would have killed my interest.

Bashing is the easy, sucky way out.

Exactly.

[ghostyouknow27.livejournal.com]

Oh, God. I cannot even express how much I hate OOC in favor of ships. I even get pissed when a writer dismisses an important past relationship, even if the ex in question is firmly out of the picture. diamondtook862 can speak of my ridiculously sensitive Angel-bashing detector, for example. :-)

It's not just that I hate seeing characters destroyed. I hate bashing on principle! If Buffy and Spike only get together because every other male character is a sociopathic ass-butt rapist, it tells me the writer doesn't have much faith in their own ship!

At least I'm somewhat used to it with Spuffy. When it's other ships and Buffy's the psycho, I hate it, because I love Buffy. I also ran across a S6 Willow fic (it was either Spillow or Willow/Angel) where Tara was the villain. Tara! They might as well have made Ms. Kitty Fantastico a Big Bad.

**steps back, contemplates bunny**

[snickfic]

I even get pissed when a writer dismisses an important past relationship, even if the ex in question is firmly out of the picture.

Yes! I get especially mad when a Spuffy fic dismisses Dru, because I adore Spike/Dru for the time they're together. Dissing Dru is just so missing the point. You don't have to, because Spike has moved on. It's not even necessary, and besides, who doesn't like Dru? *she asks innocently while admiring her default icon*

When it's other ships and Buffy's the psycho, I hate it, because I love Buffy.

Oh, yes. I was just complaining about to someone else. Bash Buffy and you have totally lost me.

[ghostyouknow27.livejournal.com]

who doesn't like Dru?
I have no idea! Yeah, I've run across fics where Spike realizes he never loved Dru, and it upsets me. Falling in love with a new person doesn't mean that you can't have loved anybody else, ever.

I also hate Buffy-never-loved-Angel and Angel-never-loved-Buffy. And I disliked Bangel on the show!