mid-S7: The Bad

[snick_backup]

I should point out that I didn't really distinguish between which elements I considered poor artistic decisions and which I just don't like. That said...

- The Potentials. Gah, the Potentials! There are several I like a lot as individuals - specifically Amanda and Vi, with a place of honor for poor comic-relief Chao-Ahn - but as a story element they drive me up the wall. I'm an introvert, okay? And the idea of twenty or thirty girls invading my house makes me positively claustrophobic.

- The First. The First on so many levels. I hate it metaphysically. I hate it as a piece of worldbuilding. I hate how it operates (which indicates a certain amount of effectiveness on its part, which I grudgingly grant). The Bringers are silly and arbitrary and the Ubvervamps look suspiciously like that "Grr. Argh" fellow.

- The high school. Again, feeling a little claustrophobic here.

- General Buffy. She's trying so hard and she's failing so bad, and meanwhile she's boring. It's the same stuff over and over, the same speeches and arguments and pushing. At least in scenes with Spike she's showing some complexity.

- Giles. I'm not saying there aren't explanations for his actions, explanations that would take precious little fanwanking, but that doesn't mean I like how he's undercutting Buffy's authority and criticizing her for operating pretty much as she always has. Which brings us to...

- Lies My Parents Told Me. Don't get me wrong, it's got lots of interesting stuff in it, but a lot of it's just wonky. Buffy would kill Dawn now to save the world? That's the big lesson she's learned in the last season and a half? When did I miss that bit of character development?

And what's all this junk about "the mission"? More General Buffyness, or something else just plain out of left field?

And how is Spike's big weight-of-truth epiphany the fact that his mother as a vampire was actually just a demon? He of all people knows that it's never just a demon; his own actions in the same flashback make it crystal clear.

- The Spike-torture in Bring on the Night and Showtime. Gah, it feels like those episodes go on forever. And not in a good way.

- Doom! It's the apocalypse to end all apocalypses!

Wait...

We're told over and over that this is it, this is the big one, we're really fighting for our lives this time - like, what, all those other apocalypses didn't count? Like the world wouldn't have been just as destroyed if we hadn't defeated Glory, or the Master, or the Sisterhood of Jhe? Like this evil somehow calls for different tactics and more severe measures than all the other times when life, the universe, and everything was at stake?

It's a bad case of Tell, Not Show, and the show's using it to justify all sorts of character behavior that I do not want! Now suddenly we take ourselves seriously? What's that all about it?

Comments

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's not really well done is it? I like the lighting and makeup and set design but it feels like the only character the writers still care about is Spike, and him only with Buffy.

Dawn and Spike's relationship never gets to re-evolve into anything after the dynamic of S5 and S6. Anya is in a permanent holding pattern and Xander is like a household appliance. Willow's recovery from S6 gets weird in STSP and then disappears.

[snickfic]

There are still some nice moments with other characters, yeah, but they don't add up to anything. Spike's the only one with what feels like an actual arc. There were some attempts with Willow, but, as you say, they're all sort of weird and poorly written.

Xander is like a household appliance.

Hee. Although, as Dawn said, "The windows really did need fixing." Considering how often our crew trashes things, a general handyman is a very nice thing to have...

[next_to_normal]

Yep, pretty much those are the things that bother me, too, and for the same reasons. Except for LMPTP, which I feel is overall awesome enough to make up for the "buh?" moments.

and the Ubvervamps look suspiciously like that "Grr. Argh" fellow.

*snort* ROFL!

[snickfic]

I feel as though LMPTP ought to be awesome, but it all seems to rely on weird characterization and just plain bad worldbuilding. I can like pieces of it, but as a whole it just doesn't make sense to me. Possibly I need to read some really good meta on it.

Here. Have an icon of Spike in his coat. *g*

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Your thoughts on the Potentials are my thoughts on the Potentials. Especially the introvert part.

I actually kind of like elisi's fanwank about the First...but I think she put a heck of a lot more thought into it than Joss did into developing the First. The only time it works for me is in the last few minutes of "Lessons" when it turns into all the other Big Bads.

GILES ARGH STAB STAB STAB.

Buffy would kill Dawn now to save the world? That's the big lesson she's learned in the last season and a half? When did I miss that bit of character development? Yeah, I remember the first time I saw that, I literally said to the screen, "Oh, yeah, right, Buffy. You so would not." That is probably the single line out of the whole show that bothers me most because it's just so untrue. I refuse to acknowledge that she said that because it's just so stupid.

And what's all this junk about "the mission"? More General Buffyness, or something else just plain out of left field?
I think it was supposed to tie back to Nikki's line and be all resonant or something. I just like to fanwank it as, "Buffy loves Spike but doesn't want to admit it. She needs a reason to justify the fact that she'd let him kill Wood. This is what she comes up with on the spot." ;D

The Spike-torture in Bring on the Night and Showtime. Gah, it feels like those episodes go on forever. And not in a good way. Agreed. But it's worth it (for me) just to see the look on Spike's face when he realizes it's really Buffy...and the look on her face when she rescues him. THAT IS TRUE LOVE, PEOPLE.

And I agree about the melodrama of the apocalypse thing.

So, clearly from reading both sets of your comments, we agree about which things are good and which things are bad! Yay! I guess maybe it's just that I prioritize the things that are good? Like, Buffy and Spike and Dawn being awesome are the most important things to me (and Anya and Andrew and some really, really ridiculously good episodes), so I'll overlook the bad. But for you the bad is just un-overlookable? So we're balancing weights here, and mine ends up with good winning and yours ends up with bad winning?

Yeah, that makes sense. I can live with that. :D

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, I remember the first time I saw that, I literally said to the screen, "Oh, yeah, right, Buffy. You so would not." That is probably the single line out of the whole show that bothers me most because it's just so untrue.

I never saw that as Buffy really believing she'd let Dawn die if she could do it over again. I think it's more that she knows that's what she's supposed to do, and furthermore, what Giles expects her to say.

The whole context of the conversation is that she's not willing to sacrifice Spike. Now, I'm a huge Spuffy shipper, but I absolutely can't believe that she loves Spike more than she loves Dawn. So if she won't sacrifice Spike, then she wouldn't sacrifice Dawn, either, and I'm pretty sure she knows that.

I just like to fanwank it as, "Buffy loves Spike but doesn't want to admit it. She needs a reason to justify the fact that she'd let him kill Wood. This is what she comes up with on the spot." ;D

Well, it's not totally on the spot. It's the same thing she says to Giles in the cemetery - "We need him. I'm in the fight of my life." It's certainly not the whole truth, but it's the only reason Giles and Wood would understand or accept.

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

I think it's more that she knows that's what she's supposed to do, and furthermore, what Giles expects her to say.
Well, I can agree with that. But I'm with you: Dawn is the person she loves most in the world. I can't see her letting Dawn die. (And yes, she does love Dawn more than Spike.)

It's the same thing she says to Giles in the cemetery - "We need him. I'm in the fight of my life." It's certainly not the whole truth, but it's the only reason Giles and Wood would understand or accept. Oh, sure. I agree. I was vastly oversimplifying to be silly. ;D I agree with Snick, though that the phrasing--"The mission is what matters"--is very not Buffy, even if the sentiment of "We need him. I'm in the fight of my life" is one I can definitely see her believing.

[snickfic]

Maybe I should look up Elisi's meta, then. Although, I gotta say, I'd rather just not think about the First ever again.

I refuse to acknowledge that she said that because it's just so stupid.

Heh. Yeah. I know I have a couple of lines like that, too, although I can't think what they are now.

I think it was supposed to tie back to Nikki's line and be all resonant or something.

Yes. "All resonant or something." Like that. I actually just linked someone else to this meta by selenak, which is a compare/contrast of Wood and Daniel Holtz from Ats, and how their respective vendettas were handled on the show. Among other things, it highlights how little actual sympathy BtVS seems to grant Wood, despite the fact that Spike did after all kill his mother. Nowhere is it acknowledged that Wood giving up on that vendetta and fighting alongside Spike might be, yanno, emotionally difficult.

I guess maybe it's just that I prioritize the things that are good?

I think the thing is that I could have dealt with the general poor writing, or the Potentials, or the First and the general sense of Impending Doom. I could maybe have even dealt with two out of three. But having them all in the same season is just a bit more than I can take. I kind of just didn't care about the Knights of Byzantium, but I actively dislike both the First and the Potentials, and it's hard to overcome that. Plus the wonky writing.

OTOH, I disliked Adam quite a bit, too, and it took some pretty heavy rewatching of S4 for Seraph before I warmed up to it. It's now my comfort food season, along with the fluffier parts of S2. So maybe there's still hope?

[penny-lane-42.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love that meta! It's totally brilliant, and I agree: Woods' story seems to have not been planned very well: at the beginning he's supposed to be all mysterious, then his story becomes subservient to Spike's, then...he's just sort of there. He's got way, way more potential as a character than the writers ever depicted, and I think it's stupid that they didn't deal with his emotional state post-LMPTM.

I do understand that. Perhaps it's a good thing that I rarely watch the season all the way through? I tend to rewatch particular episodes and scenes that really speak to me--I'm like this with every season--so my balance is skewed, obviously. But I like hope!

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

One thing I've always wondered: do we generally give Vi a pass as far as being a Potential goes because she became Felicia Day? I know I give Amanda a pass because she was hilarious on Freaks and Geeks (sitting down at a piano to play "Jesus is Just All Right" with Jason Siegel at a high school keggar - classic scene!), and I think we usually incorporate Vi into our post-Chosen fan fiction because we like Day so much.

[snickfic]

I've never seen Amanda's actress in anything else, so I clearly love her for herself alone. And I've only ever seen Day in Dr. Horrible, which I wasn't a huge fan of. I'm definitely noticing Vi more now than I did the first time, though. So, maybe? Then again, she's got some good lines: "I think I could use some of that yak urine right about now." And she's awfully cute.

[rahirah]

Yes, that. And more.

[snickfic]

And yet, with all this, I'm actually hating the season less than I did last time. Yay?

[green-maia.livejournal.com]

Word.

[snickfic]

People agree with me! Yay!

:)

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

And how is Spike's big weight-of-truth epiphany the fact that his mother as a vampire was actually just a demon? He of all people knows that it's never just a demon; his own actions in the same flashback make it crystal clear.

He said that was the demon talking, and I agree. His mother, with the demon, wanted William to let go just as she did in life. The difference was, this time around, she wasn't nice about it--the demon let her be a total, sadistic bitch, because she knew it was the only way to make him let go of her. I think that's why she smiled when he dusted her...she was proud, I think.

[ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com]

That aside, I agree with the rest ;)

[snickfic]

His mother, with the demon, wanted William to let go just as she did in life.

Interesting point. I'll have to think about that.