"Spiral" - canon question

[snick_backup]

You know in Spiral Buffy chases after Glory and Dawn and out of the gas station, and next we see Buffy surrounded by dead knights? Why do so many people say she killed them? It's clear from the caps (see here and here) that they were already dead. I always assumed Glory killed them on her way out.

Comments

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Fans think Buffy killed the knights? Huh.

It was totally Glory.

[snickfic]

I just read another fic that said so. And I've seen it before.

[fenchurche.livejournal.com]

It never even occurred to me that someone might think she had. It seemed pretty bluntly obvious that Glory had killed them all.

[next_to_normal]

Er... what?

I've actually never heard anyone say that before. Are they maybe referring to the attack on the RV? Because I imagine at least a few knights died during that.

But yeah, Buffy slaughtering the entire army? Not only is that not possible, but it doesn't even make sense.

[deird1]

Not then - earlier, on top of the car.

[snickfic]

See, that's what I thought. But then I was confused, because I've seen it come up multiple times.

[snickfic]

Maybe? Maybe I've been reading the references wrong all this time.

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

I just checked the scene- while Buffy and Willow are struggling to get out of the barrier they've set up, you can hear screaming and hacking behind them, presumably Glory wiping them out. The only knight Buffy killed was finished off while they were escaping in the van.

[snickfic]

Hmm, I guess maybe. I guess I never counted that because it was in battle, in self-defense. It never occurred to me that that would weigh on anyone's conscience - at least not considering all the other guilt Buffy carries around...

[snickfic]

Okay, see? I knew it. Thanks for the check!

[coalitiongirl.livejournal.com]

No problem! Couldn't let Buffy be slandered like that... ;D

[deird1]

I wouldn't expect her to feel guilty about it, no. But in my experience, when people start saying "Buffy killed people in Spiral! Oh noes she's a people-Slayer!", that's the scene they're talking about.

[snickfic]

Okay. Well, I guess that makes me feel better...? Except if we're looking for places where Buffy got her hands dirty, that doesn't do much convincing. I'd much likelier point to the vamp torture scene in "When She Was Bad."

[deird1]

Agreed.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

I think the RV knight(s) might be the first human-variety people that Buffy kills (NOT murders), so it's a bit of a milestone in that way. But it's a bit like the S8 army guys: a trained force declaring war on the Slayer(s). Collateral damage, as the kids call it these days, is part of the equation.

[snickfic]

Exactly. And I see people pointing to it in as evidence that even Buffy gets her hands dirty, which I find it singularly unconvincing as evidence of.

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

I don't think she killed them then. However, she did kill some knights. Here convo with Dante when trying to negotiate to get Ben in (to treat Giles) makes that clear:

DANTE: Speak.
BUFFY: One of my friends was hurt when you attacked us.
DANTE: And ten of my men are dead. Honorable men. (draws his sword) Shall we balance the scale?
BUFFY: Will you let someone come and help him or not?
DANTE: Give quarter to an agent of the beast? What madness would move me to such action?
BUFFY: I'm done asking.

Ten dead men before Glory even appears. Given the way Buffy was tossing them off the RV, I'd attribute them to her.

[snickfic]

Ahah! That explains a lot, including the specific number mentioned in the fic I was reading recently. Thank you!

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

:)

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

I thought Glory did kill them. I've never seen anything to the contrary???

[snickfic]

The consensus seems to be that when people talk about Buffy killing knights, they mean the knights who attacked the RV. So it was partly my confusion. :)

[slaymesoftly.livejournal.com]

Ah, that makes sense. She wasn't very concerned about what happen to them. :)

[rahirah]

Well, arguably Coach Marin, way back in S2, died because Buffy pushed him in to be eaten by the swim team. Technically the swim team killed him, but I don't think Buffy pushed him in expecting that they'd pour champagne on his head.